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.clair.

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Message 76072 - Posted: 28 Jun 2023, 20:47:46 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jun 2023, 20:50:02 UTC

Where is the " Validation state" 1/2/3/4/5 info kept , I have looked through my work units stdr.txt , details etc , and can`t see it ?
I only had about 2000 to bother about .
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Message 76073 - Posted: 28 Jun 2023, 20:57:36 UTC - in response to Message 76072.  

The state number is shown in the URL of your browser when you select a sub-category of your tasks in your account.
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Message 76074 - Posted: 28 Jun 2023, 21:41:50 UTC

Meh, I had over 200k tasks pending validation. If they get credit, cool. If not, then oh well.

Appreciate your time, Tom.
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Message 76075 - Posted: 28 Jun 2023, 23:28:51 UTC - in response to Message 76036.  

I have over 15000 work units waiting for validation. Just dumping them and not rewarding credits will make me rethink supporting this project.


They are not dumping the NBody tasks just the Separation tasks, the Separation tasks you are crunching and have crunched mean nothing to the database anymore so giving you credit isn't the Scientific Method of doing things. YES they could have done this shutdown ALOT differently as MANY people have pointed out but what's done is done and woulda coulda shoulda isn't going to fix it.


The problem is that 99.9% of them are the separation tasks. At least giving credit for doing the work is the least they can do.

remember: we are volunteers -- that includes all (expectable) problems. this is also true for other projects or life experiences.
That is part of science -- no one is free of failures.
Have a case of beer on me!


There's a difference between having a problem with the project and outright disregard for its users.

And no, it is not a part of science, it is disrespect.


For who and what? For you then good luck finding a Project that will give you the warm fuzzy feeling when they too have problems or make decisions based on what they want to do and not what you want.

If for the Science then all this is a moot point as the last tasks you crunched will NOT be used for the Science that will be written, they already have all the data they need/want and don't care about your tasks at all.
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Message 76076 - Posted: 28 Jun 2023, 23:29:23 UTC - in response to Message 76074.  

Meh, I had over 200k tasks pending validation. If they get credit, cool. If not, then oh well.

Appreciate your time, Tom.


Very well said!!!
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Message 76078 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 0:54:24 UTC - in response to Message 76076.  

+1
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Michael Berger

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Message 76084 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 7:47:59 UTC - in response to Message 76063.  

When it says they failed, do you mean they are marked with validate state = [2] (invalid)? I might be able to force the server to re-validate everything that was recieved within the last week that has a validate status of 2. But I need to know exactly what you see on your WUs.


In German the WUs are marked as "Ungültig" I think that means "Invalid" in English. But I'm not 100% sure.
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.clair.

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Message 76085 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 11:08:36 UTC - in response to Message 76073.  
Last modified: 29 Jun 2023, 11:13:53 UTC

The state number is shown in the URL of your browser when you select a sub-category of your tasks in your account.

Ok , thank you , got it , some things are to easy when you know how :-)
I see that `Workunits waiting for validation` is down to 3 , lowest I have ever seen it , looks like `game over` .
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Message 76086 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 12:20:42 UTC - in response to Message 76045.  

Original post only.
Thanks! I guess people just don't like getting pinged.
Yes, seems like that. But all those news about separation ending were important, so I think it's OK like that.
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Message 76087 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 12:23:01 UTC - in response to Message 76086.  

Original post only.
Thanks! I guess people just don't like getting pinged.


Yes, seems like that. But all those news about separation ending were important, so I think it's OK like that.


Agreed
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Angela J. Boonyakieat

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Message 76091 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 13:43:56 UTC

Tom, thanks for the effort in getting us credits for what we did in Seperation. I lost some to Invalid, but gained a lot.
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Message 76093 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 14:59:15 UTC - in response to Message 76070.  
Last modified: 29 Jun 2023, 15:00:23 UTC

There are also Validation inconclusive tasks with state 3.
At least 2 tasks that don't agree, which are right and which are wrong is unknown, a third task probably didn't get sent out to determine right or wrong due to the way you shut Separation down.

Edit: Actually it might only be a single task received, second not sent yet or not received back from a host.
There are some that have 2 tasks with no 3rd task sent, and some with a 3rd sent but not received back.

They made up about 3% of my tasks.


Yeah, unfortunately there's not really any good way to handle those. I figured there would be some small fraction of overall tasks that needed additional wingmen tasks to validate. Without running more tasks, there isn't a good way to assign credit to those WUs within the existing architecture (and it's hard to rationalize developing new architecture for a project that has been shut down).
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Message 76094 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 15:51:56 UTC - in response to Message 76093.  

I agree there's not a lot you can do about those to determine whether they deserve credit or not.

I haven't looked in the code/DB to see if a result being marked Valid or Invalid has an associated time stamp for that action, I'd expect it in a good system though !

Any Valid result with 0 credit could be granted a nominal credit, I'd expect those results are all from after you started your second attempt.
Any Invalid result after you started your first attempt could probably also be granted a nominal credit. It's possible some of these might have been assigned to Validation inconclusive if processed normally (through the validator) but I'd expect those to be a very small percentage of the actual good results.

This assumes you can mimic the validation process when the granted credit gets added to the host and Total credit values.
If not, you could just calculate how much extra credit to add to a person's Total credit value in the DB (when it's down for maintenance).

Depends on how much time you have and how much effort you want to put into doing this !
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Message 76095 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 16:11:33 UTC

The Server Status page still doesn't look right. There seem to be far too many 'tasks ready to send', and too many 'tasks in progress'.
Some more cleaning up of the server might need to be carried out.
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Profile Tom Donlon
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Message 76096 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 17:14:43 UTC - in response to Message 76095.  
Last modified: 29 Jun 2023, 17:15:35 UTC

The "tasks ready to send" include a bunch of separation wingman jobs that are not being sent out. I will remove those from the system soon. The extra "tasks in progress" are probably Separation tasks that are still floating around on people's machines but haven't been aborted or returned yet.
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Message 76097 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 17:43:09 UTC - in response to Message 76096.  

The "tasks ready to send" include a bunch of separation wingman jobs that are not being sent out. I will remove those from the system soon. The extra "tasks in progress" are probably Separation tasks that are still floating around on people's machines but haven't been aborted or returned yet.


i think you should abort/cancel/wipe the in-progress tasks on the database side, if you can. I have ~200 tasks reported as in-progress that are not actually on the host at all. i even performed a project reset which is supposed to abandon those tasks and nothing changed. they wont come out of in-progress naturally until they time out from hitting the deadline.

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Profile Tom Donlon
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Message 76098 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 17:48:24 UTC

As for the jobs that were marked as invalid, I will be meeting with Prof. Newberg tomorrow, and I'll make sure that it's okay that I move all the separation WUs that failed validation from the last 3 weeks back into the queue.
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Message 76099 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 22:13:25 UTC

Thank you Tom,

You have done a great job and I appreciate what you have done. I just got a heap of credit for work that I had written off as not going to get credit for and then I have it. Great work.

People like you are the ones that make people stay at projects, active on the forums, responding to help requests, and actually doing something about it.

Thanks again
Conan
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Message 76100 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 22:17:24 UTC - in response to Message 76097.  

The "tasks ready to send" include a bunch of separation wingman jobs that are not being sent out. I will remove those from the system soon. The extra "tasks in progress" are probably Separation tasks that are still floating around on people's machines but haven't been aborted or returned yet.


i think you should abort/cancel/wipe the in-progress tasks on the database side, if you can. I have ~200 tasks reported as in-progress that are not actually on the host at all. i even performed a project reset which is supposed to abandon those tasks and nothing changed. they wont come out of in-progress naturally until they time out from hitting the deadline.


I've got a little over 1000 with the same issue. Project reset didn't solve it.

Not too worried about it. In a couple weeks they should fall off after the expire anyway.

I do have almost 30k inconclusive tasks though, but again I am not worried about them. If they eventually get marked valid (earn credit, dont earn credit) or marked invalid. Doesn't matter.

I'd rather the admins/development team here spend more of their time optimizing a GPU app for N-Body that's worth running on GPUs over CPUs.
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Message 76104 - Posted: 30 Jun 2023, 14:14:04 UTC

Hey Everyone,

I chatted with Prof. Newberg this morning and we have decided not to try to re-validate workunits from the past 3 weeks.

When we brought up that we wanted to shut down separation, we asked how long people would need to transition off of the project. Your feedback told us to turn off the project ASAP, so we set a date for shutdown and then even waited a little longer than that before turning off the project. It was easy to turn the validator back on to get people credit for these leftover WUs, but we are worried that we will spend a lot of time chasing a relatively small number of credits for WUs that were returned after the project was known to be ending.

If you lost a large amount of credit, or if you have any other issues, please DM me and we will figure out a way to get you the credit that you lost. Again, we are extremely thankful for all the volunteer work that you have done to make this project feasible and successful.

Best,
Tom
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